DR. MALLOY: Okay. All right. That – that’s [indistinct].
SHIRLEY BENSON: Uh-huh.
DR. MALLOY: Thank you, Ms. Benson.
JUDGE TEATE: All right. We’ll break for 15 minutes and then return.
TARA DICKERSON: Thank you, Your Honor. You want some water?
SHIRLEY BENSON: Yes, please.
TARA DICKERSON: [Indistinct] upstairs? [Indistinct]
JUDGE TEATE: All right. We’re back on the record and, Ms. Dickerson, your next [indistinct]?
TARA DICKERSON: I don’t have any more questions [indistinct].
SHIRLEY BENSON: Okay.
TARA DICKERSON: Okay.
JUDGE TEATE: Uh, did you have other questions?
DR. MALLOY: No.
JUDGE TEATE: I thought we completed the re-cross.
DR. MALLOY: Right.
TARA DICKERSON: And I don’t have any questions for her.
JUDGE TEATE: Okay. You can step down.
TARA DICKERSON: No more witness(sic) from the Department, Your Honor.
JUDGE TEATE: All right. Uh, that being the case, we move to the case in rebuttal. Um, Dr. Malloy, if you’ll call your first witness?
DR. MALLOY: Okay. That would be Cathy Warner.
[Indistinct conversation in background]
TARA DICKERSON: [Indistinct] I’m not gonna call her again.
[Background noise]
JUDGE TEATE: Dr. Malloy, while we’re waiting for her, since I’m assuming you will be giving testimony as well, is that correct?
DR. MALLOY: Uh, yes.
JUDGE TEATE: All right. If you’ll go ahead and raise your right hand? Do you solemnly affirm the testimony you’re about to give is the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
DR. MALLOY: Yes, I do.
JUDGE TEATE: All right. Just let the record reflect Petitioner has been sworn when the time comes [indistinct] comes. Ms. Warner, you’ve already been previously sworn - -
CATHY WARNER: Uh-huh.
JUDGE TEATE: - - if you’ll just go ahead and
have a seat?
CATHY WARNER: [Indistinct]
JUDGE TEATE: Uh, your witness, sir.
DR. MALLOY: Ms. Warner, I know you [indistinct]. I’ll try not to keep you up here too long. Um, how long have you been my Office Manager?
CATHY WARNER: Close to 20 years.
DR. MALLOY: And what is, uh, our specialty?
CATHY WARNER: We’re a gynecology office.
DR. MALLOY: And are we a clinic or are we a private practice?
CATHY WARNER: Private practice.
DR. MALLOY: Have we ever been a clinic?
CATHY WARNER: No.
DR. MALLOY: Um, how long have we accepted and treated GYN patients?
CATHY WARNER: Since 1993.
DR. MALLOY: And where – where are we located?
CATHY WARNER: 6210 Old National Highway in College Park.
DR. MALLOY: Uh, as – as far as you know, are there any other GYN practices on Old National Highway?
CATHY WARNER: No.
DR. MALLOY: Um, do we have Saturday hours?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: Um, are – are we convenient?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: Um, prior to this year, have we ever had a Medicaid audit?
CATHY WARNER: No.
DR. MALLOY: Uh, have we ever undergone an administrative law judge hearing?
CATHY WARNER: No.
DR. MALLOY: Uh, and in about how long have we been performing pregnancy terminations in College Park?
CATHY WARNER: Since 1993.
DR. MALLOY: Uh, in all those years, have we ever filed a Certification Form DAM(sic)-311 for Medicaid to reimburse us for an abortion procedure?
CATHY WARNER: No.
DR. MALLOY: Uh, have we ever filed a claim for an abortion, period?
CATHY WARNER: No.
DR. MALLOY: Has Medicaid ever paid us for an abortion?
CATHY WARNER: No.
DR. MALLOY: Um, why – why do patients come to our office?
CATHY WARNER: Um, patients are coming to our
office for an ultrasound, to find out whether or not they’re pregnant. They, um, they’ve either missed periods or, um, they’re late and they’re concerned.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. [Indistinct] I’m handing you a Woman’s(sic) Right to Know and if – that is, um, a law that came into effect as part of a notification as well as documentation concerning, um, patients letting us physicians – letting us know that they’ve been made aware of certain aspects of their pregnancy. Um, are you familiar with that – that law?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: I’m not saying all of it in detail, but are you familiar with it?
CATHY WARNER: Yeah.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. So, if a patient comes or makes a phone call to come to our office and she knows that we do pregnancy terminations and she is not sure how far along she is, we have to notify her about the law?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. And not only do we have to notify her about the law, but when she comes in, she actually is given a form, okay, [papers shuffling; indistinct] to you [indistinct] she’s actually given a form stating that she has been – that she is aware that there is a 24-hour notice before she can undergo a pregnancy termination?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: So, if somebody is or may be interested in having a termination when they come into our office, they have to let us know that 24 – at least 24 – hours in advance?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. Otherwise, we cannot do the abortion?
CATHY WARNER: No, we cannot.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. So – and would you admit that some patients know ahead of time that, if they come in and if they are pregnant, that they may want to terminate the pregnancy?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: And some patients come in to find out if they’re pregnant and not sure exactly what they’re going to do?
CATHY WARNER: Yeah. Yes.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. Would you also agree though that, if they are undecided but they don’t get information regarding the Woman’s(sic) Right to Know and then they make a decision the day of, we cannot do
their abortion?
CATHY WARNER: No, we cannot.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. So, therefore, it’s not uncommon for patients to put on the form the reason for the visit is for termination, but – and we’ve already shown previous that they don’t always have a pregnancy termination?
CATHY WARNER: Yeah. Yes.
DR. MALLOY: As a matter of fact, Ms. Warner, what percentage of patients would you say come into our office and either don’t have an abortion or aren’t even pregnant?
CATHY WARNER: About 25 percent.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. Um, could someone come to our office, find out that they’re pregnant, and have an abortion someplace else?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: And could someone come to our office and find out that they’re pregnant and decide they want to maintain the pregnancy?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: Um, if a patient hasn’t had a period or has had an unusual one, what lab or what radiographic procedures do we do [indistinct]?
CATHY WARNER: We do an ultrasound on the
patient. We do a pregnancy test. We do a hematocrit,
a urinalysis.
DR. MALLOY: And, after we do that, we give the patient the information, is that correct?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. And we emphatically, um, if they are Medicaid – and we’re talking Medicaid patients.
CATHY WARNER: Uh-huh.
DR. MALLOY: We emphatically let them know that the rules are that Medicaid will not pay for an abortion?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. And they are aware of that - -
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: - - when they come into the office? Okay? Correct?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. And when we send a claim in to Medicaid, we don’t – or do we send in a claim for an abortion?
CATHY WARNER: No, we don’t.
DR. MALLOY: [Indistinct] Um, I think – I think we only have one more [indistinct; pages shuffling]. What I’m showing you now, Ms. Warner, is another form that’s in our office. It’s called Pregnancy Verification Form. Okay? And we have had that form for how long?
CATHY WARNER: Since 1993.
DR. MALLOY: And we’ve had that form because we did not – or did we have the form – we have a form to inform patients of what?
CATHY WARNER: That Medicaid does not pay for a termination if they decide to do that.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. And, in all the years – and you’ve been my Office Manager for how long?
CATHY WARNER: Close to 20 years.
DR. MALLOY: And for 20 years, we have taken care of Medicaid patients - -
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: - - and 20 years, Medicaid has paid us regularly?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: For 20 years, okay, there has never been a time, as far as you know, that Medicaid stated that we were doing something that was fraudulent?
CATHY WARNER: No. They’ve never informed us.
DR. MALLOY: Or misrepresenting what care we’re providing in the office?
CATHY WARNER: No.
DR. MALLOY: Now this audit letter was sent out in January. Ms. Warner, have we – have you had the occasion to – you had – you said earlier this morning on direct from Ms. Dickerson that we have seven employees?
CATHY WARNER: Uh-huh.
DR. MALLOY: Have we had the occasion to – did we have seven employees last year at this time?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. Um, did we have the occasion to fire any of our employees in the past year?
CATHY WARNER: Yes, we have.
DR. MALLOY: Um, and what role did that patient have in our office?
CATHY WARNER: She filed our Medicaid claims.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. And that particular employee appealed? That [indistinct] that particular employee appealed her firing, um, and had a hearing, is that correct?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: And what was the result of that hearing?
CATHY WARNER: They denied her her unemployment.
DR. MALLOY: So – because they felt?
CATHY WARNER: That the ruling, um, the – her
firing was legit.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. And that happened around – can you tell what month around that [indistinct]?
CATHY WARNER: August. August 14th was the day that I let her go, and the hearing was, um, October 16th.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. And then we got the letter for an audit in January?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: Um, and, again, what was her – what was her role in our office?
CATHY WARNER: She filed our Medicaid claims.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. Um, and is – is – would you say, based on your opinion, that she was upset about the firing and about losing the appeal?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: To the point where she made threats to our office?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: And do you know, just from what you can recall, what those threats were?
CATHY WARNER: Uh, she’s gonna make us pay. She’s gonna – she’s gonna get us as far as, um, any way she can.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. But prior to last year, we
have never had an issue doing what we have been doing for the past 20 years?
CATHY WARNER: Never.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. Do you recall – oh, let me back up [indistinct; pages shuffling]. Are you aware of the fact that I have worked at other facilities, um, over the past 29 years that I’ve been in Atlanta?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: And are you aware of the fact that I have, um, performed obstetrical procedures, gynecological procedures, pregnancy terminations for 29 years in the state of Georgia?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: And are you aware that I have taken care of Medicaid patients for 29 years in the state of Georgia?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: And that in none – are you aware of any other facilities that I have worked – private practice, clinical setting, hospital – where there has been an issue regarding any fraudulent or misrepresentation that I have done with respect to claims that I’ve filed with Medicaid?
CATHY WARNER: I’m not aware of any.
DR. MALLOY: And, with that, we’ve had issues
where we have [indistinct] – have you had the occasion to call Medicaid yourself about certain policies?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: And was there one where – was there an incident where you called Medicaid about what code to use for patients who come in and, um, find out that they’re not pregnant?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. So you – you’ve spoken with Medicaid many times?
CATHY WARNER: I have.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. And, again (and I – I know I’m repeating), there’s never been an issue with respect to what we have been doing at Old National Highway?
CATHY WARNER: No.
DR. MALLOY: So, Ms. Warner, a patient comes in, has the services that we provide - -
CATHY WARNER: Uh-huh.
DR. MALLOY: - - to find out if she’s pregnant. She – and we only will bill Medicaid when she is an eligible recipient?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: We check their Medicaid card?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: We check their ID - -
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: - - to make sure they don’t have somebody else’s card?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: Um, and we provide that service and – and anything else with respect to Medicaid?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: Is there anything else that we provide as far as Medicaid is concerned other than the laboratory data and the sonographic procedures that we do? Anything else for the Medicaid patient - -
CATHY WARNER: No.
DR. MALLOY: - - that – that we do? Okay. Um, when the audit was held back in – in January, um, do you recall, um, Ms. Moore stating right here that she wanted to – to interview me?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: And – but I could not be there that day?
CATHY WARNER: Right.
DR. MALLOY: And that I was willing to come in the next day?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: And – okay. Um, and I had called
and asked what time should I be there, is that correct?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: And – and do you recall what – what did you say to me?
CATHY WARNER: Um, I told you that, um, she said it wasn’t necessary.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. So I was willing to come in and discuss this issue back on that day of the audit, okay, to explain what we do?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. And – but you remember her saying it wasn’t necessary for me to come in?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. Um, and you mentioned, uh, three physicians and – and I think you may have left out a physician because they’re not there that often, but we actually have four physicians, okay, and so, for the record, okay, would you mention the physicians again that work out of our facility?
CATHY WARNER: Dr. Hadley, Dr. Johnson and Dr. Peacock - -
DR. MALLOY: Okay.
CATHY WARNER: - - um, has been there, but she
hasn’t been there lately [indistinct].
DR. MALLOY: As far as you know - -
CATHY WARNER: Yourself.
DR. MALLOY: Okay, thank you. As far as you know – as far as you know – these are all Board certified OB/GYN doctors?
CATHY WARNER: Yes, they are.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. Um, has anyone ever said to you, Ms. Warner, that if we – if the patient came in with a diagnosis of amenorrhea or missed menses or abnormal bleeding, that if we did their lab work that day but did their abortion the next day or the following week, that would be okay?
CATHY WARNER: No.
DR. MALLOY: Has anyone ever said to you that if we did the lab work and the patient had an abortion someplace else, that that would be okay? Has anyone ever said – has anyone ever made any reference to the procedures that we do, tying them into when an abortion is done on how we get reimbursed?
CATHY WARNER: No.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. Have you seen anything in writing for the 20 years that you’ve worked for me that stated anything about the time frame from when we can do laboratory data to when we can do an abortion
to state whether we can file a claim or not?
CATHY WARNER: No.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. So – and, yet, we’ve been doing what we’ve been doing for almost 20 years and not only at that facility, but other facilities where I’ve worked, and there’s never been an issue?
CATHY WARNER: No, there hasn’t.
DR. MALLOY: Until the audit January of this year?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. Um, if – if we had performed an abortion because of incest, rape, endangerment of a woman’s life, we would’ve form – filed a form – DMA-311?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: And that form specifically states that for – order for us to get reimbursed by Medicaid for an abortion, it has to be one of those three things?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: And we have to submit that form to get reimbursed for the abortion – the actual procedure - -
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: - - and anything with that actual
procedure?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: Okay? So the diagnosis where we send that claim in or the procedure code would be an abortion?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. But the procedure code that we use when we see a patient in our office, okay, that procedure code, does it state anything about us doing an abortion?
CATHY WARNER: No.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. Because if it did and we didn’t send in a Form DAM(sic) – DMA-311 - - with one of those provisions checked, we would be in violation?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: We would be doing something fraudulent? We would be misrepresenting, is that correct?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. So no one has ever made any comment to you, there’s nothing that you’ve seen in a manual, that states the time frame between when lab work can be done and when an abortion can be done to say whether it’s fraud, misrepresentation? Have you seen anything that said that?
CATHY WARNER: I haven’t.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. That’s – that’s all the questions I have.
JUDGE TEATE: Anything on cross?
TARA DICKERSON: [Overlapping conversation] questions. You all have a website, correct?
CATHY WARNER: Yes, we do.
TARA DICKERSON: Are you familiar with the website?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
TARA DICKERSON: And doesn’t your website indicate that you specialize in first trimester abortions?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
TARA DICKERSON: Okay. Now you’ve indicated that there are – you mentioned a doctor v- several doctors – that work out of his location?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
TARA DICKERSON: And you said they were all borrow - – board certified, correct?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
TARA DICKERSON: And, to your knowledge, do they all have their own provider number?
CATHY WARNER: Not at the moment, they don’t.
TARA DICKERSON: Which doctors there do not have
their own provider number?
CATHY WARNER: Um, Dr. Hadley.
TARA DICKERSON: How long has Dr. Hadley been there?
CATHY WARNER: Ooh, [sighing] um, I – close to 10 years, maybe just a little longer.
TARA DICKERSON: What services does Dr. Hadley provide?
CATHY WARNER: He does procedures in our office.
TARA DICKERSON: And procedures, would that include abortions?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
TARA DICKERSON: So he’s billing under Dr. Malloy’s provider number?
CATHY WARNER: Yes, he is.
TARA DICKERSON: And he’s not – he does not have his own provider number?
CATHY WARNER: No.
TARA DICKERSON: Any other doctors there who do not have their own provider number?
CATHY WARNER: Dr. Johnson.
TARA DICKERSON: How long has Dr. Johnson been there?
CATHY WARNER: About 10 to [indistinct] 12 years.
TARA DICKERSON: And he’s also billing under Dr.
Malloy’s provider number, is that correct?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
TARA DICKERSON: What other physicians there are without their provider number?
CATHY WARNER: Dr. Peacock was.
TARA DICKERSON: How long was Dr. Peacock there?
CATHY WARNER: About five years.
TARA DICKERSON: And he never had a provider number?
CATHY WARNER: It’s a female.
TARA DICKERSON: She never had a provider number of her own?
CATHY WARNER: No.
TARA DICKERSON: And she was also billing under Dr. Malloy’s provider number?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
TARA DICKERSON: Do you all have at your location a copy of the Handbook for the Policies and Procedures for Medicaid?
CATHY WARNER: I do not.
TARA DICKERSON: At your location?
CATHY WARNER: I do not.
TARA DICKERSON: Now you indicated that the billing personnel was terminated.
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
TARA DICKERSON: Are you doing the billing now?
CATHY WARNER: I’m not.
TARA DICKERSON: With regard to Georgia, to your knowledge, can you have an abortion at a facility such as the [indistinct] Dr. Malloy’s if it’s beyond 14 weeks if the - -
CATHY WARNER: Not in a private doctor’s office.
TARA DICKERSON: So, in fact, you must do the test, correct?
CATHY WARNER: Which - -
TARA DICKERSON: The ultrasound, those type of tests, you must do those tests, correct, to determine if the – if the fetus is be – is within the 14-week range, correct?
CATHY WARNER: That’s part of the procedure, yes.
TARA DICKERSON: Would it surprise you to know that the cost that you bill to Medicaid per Medicaid member was $403 related to those services per member? Would that surprise you?
CATHY WARNER: No.
TARA DICKERSON: And the actual cost of an abortion is $250 per Medicaid member, correct?
CATHY WARNER: Medicaid members get a discount, so that’s - -
TARA DICKERSON: And that’s the $250?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
TARA DICKERSON: Now Dr. Malloy keeps mentioning this form, so I’m gonna mention the form. And I think you have it in front of you.
CATHY WARNER: Okay.
TARA DICKERSON: That’s your standard form, the Pregnancy Verification Form.
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
TARA DICKERSON: You have a copy of that, right?
CATHY WARNER: I do.
TARA DICKERSON: And this is – this is a form that’s pat of – - part of – your package that the – any person receives when they come into the office, correct?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
TARA DICKERSON: Okay. And with regard to this form, this form was created by your office, correct?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
TARA DICKERSON: All right. And this form does list the services that are done that are billed to Medicaid if the member is a Medicaid member, correct?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
TARA DICKERSON: And the fact is that you all – the office, the doctor – must know how far along the, um, particular fetus is before they can perform an
abortion, correct?
CATHY WARNER: Yes, we know that.
TARA DICKERSON: And this helps you to comply with that by indicating the pregnant number of weeks?
CATHY WARNER: Yes. This is for the patient, yes.
TARA DICKERSON: No other questions.
JUDGE TEATE: Okay. Redirect, sir?
DR. MALLOY: Yes. [Indistinct]
TARA DICKERSON: Thank you.
DR. MALLOY: Well, Cathy, when she asked you about the provider numbers, making – and make sure you get this right - -
CATHY WARNER: Uh-huh.
DR. MALLOY: - - she’s talking – she was asking you are you aware of Drs. Hadley, Peacock, Johnson having Medicaid provider numbers?
CATHY WARNER: Uh-huh.
DR. MALLOY: Okay? So is it fair to say that Drs. Hadley, Peacock and Johnson all have private practices?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: Do you work for any of them in their private practices?
CATHY WARNER: No.
DR. MALLOY: So as far as you – do you do any
billing in their private practices?
CATHY WARNER: No.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. So they are agents of mine at Old National Highway?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: And I’m not gonna ask you about (and I have another witness that will confirm other things), but – but as far as you know, you have no idea of the billing practices at Dr. Peacock’s office, Dr. Hadley’s office, Dr. Johnson’s office?
CATHY WARNER: I do not.
DR. MALLOY: So – so when you stated that they didn’t have a provider number, okay, you actually don’t know for sure if they have a provider number because you don’t work in their private offices?
CATHY WARNER: That’s true.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. All right. Um, now, if Ms. Dickson also – - Dickerson also – mentioned that every patient has to have the lab. If someone had a sonogram done yesterday and we see them today and don’t perform a sonogram, do we do a Medicaid for a sonogram that we don’t do?
CATHY WARNER: No.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. And she also mentioned about
our website. Our website, besides stating that we are
a specialist in first trimester abortions, our website also states that we provide GYN services?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. Um, we provide family planning services?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: Um, the Pregnancy Verification Form, that form states on there procedures that we do?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: Was there anywhere on that form - - ‘cause I – I – I know Ms. Dickerson asked you this or not and want to make sure that you give the correct answer - - is there anywhere on that form that states that the procedures that we do that we’re going to bill Medicaid for those?
CATHY WARNER: No.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. So we do those procedures, but it doesn’t say anywhere on that form that we’re billing Medicaid for those procedures?
CATHY WARNER: No.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. It is a Pregnancy Verification Form?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. Nothing about billing is on
there, other than that Medicaid doesn’t pay for
abortions?
CATHY WARNER: That’s correct.
DR. MALLOY: That’s it?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: Insofar as you know - -
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: - - that you can see on that form?
CATHY WARNER: Uh-huh.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. When she made – she asked you about the form, did you – were you surprised about the $400-something that you’re billing Medicaid? Those $400-[indistinct] whatever we’re billing Medicaid for services that we provide?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. Um, as a matter of fact, if we didn’t bill Medicaid – if we didn’t bill Medicaid – and a Medicaid-eligible recipient came into our office and we charged that [tapping] Medicaid-eligible recipient for the services that she’s having done, we then would be in violation of the Medicaid rule, is that correct?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: Because we cannot [tapping] charge a patient – a Medicaid-eligible patient - -
TARA DICKERSON: Your Honor, I would ask that you
ask Dr. Malloy to refrain from testifying. He has been sworn and he will get his chance to testify.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. I’m sorry.
JUDGE TEATE: Sustained.
DR. MALLOY: I’m sorry.
JUDGE TEATE: Okay, go ahead.
DR. MALLOY: Ms. Warner, if we – are we allowed to charge a Medicaid-eligible patient a fee for a service that they are entitled to under their enrollment in the program? I – let me – that’s a long question. Can we collect money from a patient for a service that Medicaid allows us to do?
CATHY WARNER: No.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. If we did that – if we billed a patient – if we charged a patient for a service that Medicaid recipient is eligible for, that would be fraudulent?
CATHY WARNER: Yes.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. [Indistinct]
TARA DICKERSON: Your Honor, I think he’s finished with the witness.
DR. MALLOY: I’m sorry.
JUDGE TEATE: All right. Did you have anything on re-cross?
TARA DICKERSON: Nothing further.
JUDGE TEATE: All right, you can step down, ma’am.
CATHY WARNER: Thank you.
JUDGE TEATE: [Indistinct] witness, Dr. Malloy?
DR. MALLOY: [Indistinct] My next witness, uh, will be Ms. – Ms. Ebony Joyner. Ms. Joyner?
JUDGE TEATE: Ms. Joyner, if you’ll come to the front over here for this top chair?
EBONY JOYNER: Okay.
JUDGE TEATE: Before you take a seat, if you would please raise your right hand? Do you solemnly swear and affirm the testimony you’re about to give is the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
EBONY JOYNER: Yes.
JUDGE TEATE: All right. Be seated and state your name for the record.
EBONY JOYNER: Uh-huh. Ebony Joyner.
JUDGE TEATE: And how is Joyner spelled, with a Y or an I?
EBONY JOYNER: Y.
JUDGE TEATE: Okay. All right, Mr. – Dr. – Malloy, go ahead.
DR. MALLOY: Ms. Joyner, hi. I’m sorry we got
you pulled into this at the last minute. Um, Ms.
Joyner, could you just for the record, um, tell us what you do?
EBONY JOYNER: Um, I’m the Field Representative for, um, ACS, um, which is Georgia Medicaid, uh, for territories DeKalb County, Rockdale County and Clayton County.
DR. MALLOY: Okay, thank you.
EBONY JOYNER: Uh-huh.
DR. MALLOY: Um, Ms. Joyner, because you are something called a Field Rep - -
EBONY JOYNER: Uh-huh?
DR. MALLOY: - - it’s not uncommon – or is it uncommon – for doctors’ offices to, um, contact you concerning, um, Medicaid issues?
EBONY JOYNER: No, it’s not uncommon.
DR. MALLOY: And, to the best of your ability, you give them what you feel is an honest answer that represents the rules of Medicaid?
EBONY JOYNER: Correct.
DR. MALLOY: Okay. Um, I would like to put [indistinct; pages shuffling].
TARA DICKERSON: Uh-huh.
DR. MALLOY: Could you, for the Court, identify that form for us, please? Oh, actually, better than that, could you just – could you just read the form
out loud from the very top? I’d appreciate it.
EBONY JOYNER: Um, NetZero Message Center, um, oh, meaning starting with the email?
DR. MALLOY: Right.